Perusing the digital archives of The Scotsman

speleobat2 · Post by **speleobat2** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:24 pm

Thanks Jean!

I have a version of the Gale Virtual Ref. Library on my AVL, but it doesn't include the Times Digital Archives. I'll give the Bedfordshire site a shot first thing in the morning. If it doesn't work for me, I'll stop and have a chat with my local librarian.

Carol

speleobat2 · Post by **speleobat2** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:38 pm

Brian and all:

Well, I've been down a twisty path with Anne Clerihew Kilpatrick today! I found daughter Agnes' birth certificate which said that Anne and James were married on Aug. 7, 1867--in Farnham, Surrey, England.

I found the registration in the BMD and I'm sure you know that the English records have zilch for information in them. I did find the family in the 1871 and 1881 Census records, but I still can't pull a birth certificate on Anne. The Census records and her death certificate both have her born in Alford, Aberdeenshire though. I'm thinking that she may have been illegitimate so I'm going to put this one aside for now.

Thanks for your interest!

Carol

Post by **SarahND** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:19 pm

Hi Carol,
Could this be Anne in 1861?

19 Rubislaw Ter, Old Machar, Aberdeen
James Forsyth, 65, Head, born Glasgow, Lanarkshire, D D Minister of West Parish Aberdeen
Margaret Forsyth, 42, Wife, born Strichen, Aberdeenshire, Wife of D
John S Forsyth, 19, Son, born Morham, Haddingtonshire
Jane E. Forsyth, 15, Daughter, born Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Daughter of Mainster
Archibald Forsyth, 12, son, born Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Son Mainster
Margaret Yannie, 23, Servant, born Turriff, Aberdeenshire, Domestic Servant
Anne Clerishaw, 23, Servant, born Alford, Aberdeenshire, Domestic Serv

And who is this in 1851? Looks like a couple of yours

Mid Mill, Alford, Aberdeenshire
Ann Clerchew, 79, Head, born Alford, Aberdeenshire, Worsted Knitter
Elizabeth Clerchew, 69, Sister, born Alford, Aberdeenshire, Worsted Knitter

The two of them were living together also in 1841, no small child in the household though. But surely they must be relatives?

Just adding more vegetable to the stew... it may help or may drive you crazy

All the best,
Sarah

speleobat2 · Post by **speleobat2** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:51 pm

Who me? Too late! I already am a little crazy!

The three Clerihews you found are all residents of my "Other Clerihews" folder. Anne could be the Anne Clerihew who went on to marry James Kilpatrick, but then again, maybe not. I was really hoping to find out who at least one of her parents was, but didn't. I have a number of strays. The real problem is that everyone named their kids one of the same half dozen or so names. A nice Lucretia would be a welcome find!

Sooner or later most of them will fall into place. I had a mother daughter pair--Elspet and Isabella who finally turned out to be Elizabeth and Isabella. Elizabeth Smith married Alexander Clerihew and they had Isabella. Of course, I'm not sure which Alexander Clerihew he was.....

That's why finding a source like The Scotsman is important. If it hadn't been for that one little death notice, I might never have made the Kilpatrick connection. By the way, your Clerishaw was number 19 on my list of Clerihew variations. I'm going to post those for Russell in a few minutes!

Carol

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:16 am

Carol,

I accessed the 354 hit database through the New South Wales (Australia) State Library, it’s free, but restricted to residents of this State in a similar way to the AVL. It started as a trial and looks like it is now a permanent feature.

The database is called ‘ProQuest Historical Newspapers’ and I can access those listed underneath. Other libraries may have more or less newspapers available. There are OCR’d searchable images of the entire newspaper

Chicago Tribune (1849 - 1985)
Christian Science Monitor (1908 - 1993)
Los Angeles Times (1881 - 1985)
New York Times (1851 - 2001)
Wall Street Journal (1889 - 1989)
Washington Post (1877 - 1990)

For more information on ProQuest and this particular database go to http://il.proquest.com/markets/public.shtml and click on the ‘more info’ link towards the bottom of the page for a 27 minute audio/visual. If you have a slow connection make a cup of coffee while it’s loading.

I couldn’t find a list of libraries which have this database. If anyone wants to check if it is available in their area they could try googling “ProQuest Historical Newspapers””------------“, inserting the relevant State or County.

Another database called, I think, ‘ProQuest Newspapers’, but which could have other names, has articles from a great number of newspapers throughout the world but only in text form, only covering the last 10 years or so, and without things like classified adds.

For the State of Alabama, the ProQuest Historical Newspapers database is available at the University of Alabama for Teachers and Students, either on the campus or by remote login, but hasn’t been extended to the general public via AVL. This could be cost related. See these links

http://www.lib.ua.edu/cgi-bin/databases ... tlestart=P
http://www.lib.ua.edu/databases/dbaccess.htm

That’s the situation as near as I can figure it, if you find that you can’t access this database let me know and I’ll have a scratch around.

Alan
p.s There’s a lot of useful info about everything on this site. For newspapers see Databases & Records on the left and follow your noise). http://genealogy.about.com/

speleobat2 · Post by **speleobat2** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:45 am

Thanks Alan!

I'll take a look after I have my second cup of coffee! I appreciate the resources. I have a folder for them on my computer.

Another question: In one of your posts the other day you gave information on a William Clerihew married to Mary Joss and living in Singleton, Australia. I tracked down Mary and found her birth certificate in Scotland, but not William. I know that they were both in Singleton, NSW in 1857 and I was able to find both of their dates of death through the NSW Registry, but there was nothing about children. There may not have been any, but where would you go from this point to search since there are no census records?

Thanks again,

Carol

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:19 pm

Carol,

William Clerihew’s marriage is on NSW BDM in 1847, Presbyterian, Singleton or nearby, spouse Mary Loss [sic]. I couldn’t find any records of birth of children or deaths of children to anything like Clerihew in Singleton (or old name Patricks Plain) so they may not have had any. There’s a bit more activity on NSW BDM for the name Joss.

If you go to NSW State Records Keyname Search http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/ ... h_2187.asp and type in Clerihew you’ll come up with two Deceased Estate records with full death dates. They possibly had a farm, or some sort of property, which went to Mary when William died and maybe went to Mary’s relations when she died. I haven’t had much to do with these records but there’s info here. I have an idea that getting those records involves a personal visit to Sydney. http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/ ... s_4667.asp

NSW State Records has a Mary Joss arriving in NSW on 27 July, 1847 from Adelaide as a passenger on the ‘Dorset” with a note presumably meaning that she was referred to as Mrs Joss in the Sydney Morning Herald report of the arrival.

Indications are that Mary arrived from Adelaide South Australia in 1847 and immediately married William Clerihew in Singleton, possibly indicating that he was already well established there. It’s possible she may have had to break her journey from Scotland, or wherever, in Adelaide (leaky boat?) and seek other transport.

I couldn’t find anything in SA but you could try these links for SA and other Australian research.
http://www.familyhistorysa.info/
http://www.coraweb.com.au/

That’s all that immediately springs to mind, hope it helps, (better check all the above)
Alan

LATER
Just an afterthought,

When long term residents of small towns die there’s usually an obituary full of information and misinformation in the local paper. There’s an active (or so I believe) Family History Society at Singleton http://www.xroyvision.com.au/singleton/sfhspage.htm

Armed with the death dates from State Records, if you thought it worthwhile, you could make some enquiries there.

Alan

speleobat2 · Post by **speleobat2** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:04 pm

Thanks once again Alan,

I had tried to find the marriage certificate, but didn't get passed Joss last night to any variations or wildcards. Also, I was thinking that they had probably married in Scotland. I'm thinking seriously of buying William's death certificate to see if it lists his parents or if I can narrow down his age some more and maybe fit him into my list of "strays" since I don't know which Clerihew family he came from, but I will check out the newspaper in Singleton first for an obit. and any other free info first.

The familyhistory and coraweb sites look interesting too! Hope nobody tries to call to tell me that I won a million dollars because my land line is going to be tied up for a while!

Carol

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:54 am

Carol,

If you think it's worth getting, William Clerihew's death certificate could be useful especially since Mary was still alive when he died and was there to supply the info.

The Australian mainland eastern states death certificates are basically the same as the 1855 Scottish certificates but the parent's names will only be the same as shown in the Index i.e. For William: father is William, mother unknown. For Mary: both parents unknown.

The certificates include burial, where born, how long in Colony, place and age at marriage and any child details plus all the other usual details provided all this is known to the informant.

The marriage record would be a church record i.e before 1856 official registration. It would be similar to a Scottish church record, just the basics with maybe occupation and ages if lucky.

The newspaper for the area is the Singleton Argus published from 1874 to current. I'm fairly sure it has been microfilmed but don't know the details.

Alan

LATER

Before you do anything - Go to http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ ... search.asp

type in Clerihew select country Australia. There's a Pedigree Resources File for William with a submitter name and address in the Australian Capital Territory (ACT). The interest seems to be mainly Joss/Sandieson.

Alan

speleobat2 · Post by **speleobat2** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:57 am

Good morning Alan,

Thanks again. It's interesting that there should be so little information on Mary Joss out there. I went to SP and pulled her baptism record, no problem. Her father was James Joss and her mother was Rachel Sandieson. She was baptized Nov. 19, 1817 in Keig.

Thanks for the newspaper name. I tried to find it yesterday, but only came up with the modern ones. I'm going to email the historical society in Singleton today. They are supposed to have a clipping file for old obituaries.

Carol

Just went back to familysearch and there was the information on Mary Joss. I've had my second cup of coffee now so I'm a little more alert!