Ancestry look up please

crayspond · Post by **crayspond** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:33 pm

Hello everybody,

Trying to get further back in my family - can anyone do a look up on Ancestry for me for the following:

12 30/12/1715 BELFRAGE JOHN JANET BELL/ M Inverkeithing /FIFE 432/ 0050 0197
13 17/11/1715 BELFRAGE JOHN JANET BELL/FR841 M Inverkeithing /FIFE

Really trying to find out what children they had.

Thanks,

Ailsa

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:28 pm

Hi Ailsa
Have you looked on Scotlands People for children with surname BELFRAGE and other parent name BELL?
I'm seeing one in Inverkeithing. There may be more, hiding behind a spelling variation of Belfrage...

Have you checked on IGI ( www.familysearch.org )by doing a parent search?
In both cases to search is free. To see the result on Scotland People will cost you a credit or two, but the IGI is completely free.

Both of the marriage entries above look as if they are from Scotlands People - you can download the original entries there. There may be some clues as sometimes a relative is a witness or cautioner to a marraige, but the only way to find out is to view it!

Give it a go, and if you have any problems just shout!
Best wishes
Lesley

Post by **SarahND** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:39 pm

Hi Ailsa,
Lesley's advice is good. There is nothing on Ancestry that will help you with such old records-- The IGI and Scotland's People is the only way to go.

Good luck!
Sarah

crayspond · Post by **crayspond** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:32 am

Hi LesleyB and SarahND,
Thanks for coming back to me - i really appreciate how TS always replies no matter what.
I was really interested to see if Ancestry had any information on older records - you answered that question. Thanks.
I have found familysearch.org really helpful - it takes a long time but i did find John Beveridge and Margaret Dale or Deal on it and a list of children, one of them being (my)John born 24.01.1765. He is really my last definite find, if you like.
After this it gets more difficult, firstly they have all lived in Dunfermline. I am going on the naming pattern and other hints.
I have paid for a few old records and to be honest, although it is great to have them they don't tell much and it becomes expensive especially when you are viewing other things. For example i printed out the birth cert of John Beveridge 04/01/1726 and all it says is John Beveridge and Janet Bell had a son called John before the congregation on the 4th Jan 1726.
I am 90% certain this is the same family but it is Inverkeithing - not Dunfermline (they could have originated from Inverkeithing) also as you can see the name has changed to or from Belfrage.
I think the two i have posted will be the marriage which if it's the same as a 1790 marriage cert i have of John and Ann Gibson will say they have given their names for proclamation in order to marriage and being regularly proclaimed and no objections made were married . Unless a 1726 marriage cert was different?
No worries i will continue to search and most probably will download them from SP. This is what makes genealogy so addictive !!!!

Regards
Ailsa

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:05 pm

Hi Ailsa
There is no doubt that things get much more difficult the further back you go and by 17-whotsit, you tend to be very grateful for any little clues you can pick up in the OPR, no matter how tiny!

There are hundreds of Belfrage and Beveridges in the Dunfermline area, so it could take you some time sorting them all out

And that is the other thing which does not help once you are as far back as the early 1700s - the spelling becomes very "elastic", based on what the name sounds like and that makes it all the harder to know for sure you have found the correct folk too.

For example i printed out the birth cert of John Beveridge 04/01/1726 and all it says is John Beveridge and Janet Bell had a son called John before the congregation on the 4th Jan 1726.

That is a very typical OPR entry type. Only, it usually states that they "had a son baptised" or similar - I had a wee laugh at your version as without those words as I doubt the kirk elders would have allowed it, especially not in the kirk itself!!

You are not alone. Lots of us get stuck around this period just because there is not enough evidence sometimes to be 100% sure you have the correct folk. For some areas there are not even OPRs in the mid 1700s. (e.g. Tarbat in Easter Ross does not start recording births until 1794 and marriages are not recorded there until 1809, so that is pretty much me stumped with that branch!) Still, look on the bright side - it could be worse... at least they are not in Ireland!

Best wishes
Lesley

Chris Paton · Post by **Chris Paton** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:33 am

Hi Ailsa,

I have a copy of the Annals of Dunfermline by Ebenezer Henderson - the following mentions of Belfrages and Beveridges are found within:

BELFRAGE:

20 APR 1660 - a George Belfrage, servitor to Mr William and Arthere Kay, is listed as a witness to a kirk session entry regarding an attempt to break into the church at Dunfermline to allow burial within of the Laird of Rosyth, despite the fact that no burials had been allowed there since 1643.

1664 - a George Belfrage, minister of Carnock, deposed for nonconformity to Prelacy, and was ordered to confine himself within the bounds of Carnock Parish.

2 SEP 1666 - William Belfrage summonsed before the Session for the sin of nut gathering on the Sabbath.

24 SEP 1678 - meeting of the Incorporation of Fleshers met in the Auld Kirk to choose a deacon. One of those present was a William Belfrage.

30 SEP 1699 - a Bailie Belfrage was ordered to pay James Cusine forty shillings for a halbert furnished to Thomas Patisone, town officer.

4 NOV 1706 - two of the signatories to a letter opposing the Act of Union were two fleshers, Andrew and John Belfrage.

3 MAR 1712 - a council act of 21 FEB 1712 regarding "the redemption of Burgh Meals and Annuals at ten years purchase, appears to have been favourably received by the community". A report on 3 MAR 1712 includes: Robert Belfrage's land 10d; Andrew Belfrage's land 7d; and Andrew Belfrage's land 3d

1721 - list of Guild Brethren (taken from the last page of one of the volumes of the Guildry records) includes Andrew and Robert Belfrage

BEVERIDGE:

1718 - report on the introduction of damask weaving lists John Beveridge and John Gilmour, weavers, of the Brucefield feus.

1804 - a Lieutenant David Beveridge is noted in the Dunfermline Volunteer Corps.

1811 - a report on the division of the burgh into wards for the 1811 census names William Beveridge, Chamberlain, as presently residing at the Guild Hall.

1811 - William Beveridge Esquire, writer, appointed one of the joint agents for the Dunfermline branch of the Bank of Scotland on Guildhall Street.

1822 - death of David Wilson, noted as one of the firm of Messrs Wilson and Beveridge, bankers, since 1810.

1842 - Erskine Beveridge, Esq, manuafcturer, elected Provost of Dunfermline.

1851 - Erskine Beveridge one of those to have exhibited at the Great Exhibition at Crystal Palace, London.

1855 - report of a napkin sold to a Mr Erskine Beveridge, manufacturer in Dunfermline.

...followed by many more entries for Erskine Beveridge.

Hopefully these might help at some point!

Chris

Chris Paton · Post by **Chris Paton** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:39 am

Couple more Belfrage mentions in Black's Surnames of Scotland:

Andrew Belfrage was Commissioner to Parliament for Dunfermline, 1681.

John Belverage, flesher in Dunfermline, 1685.

Chris

crayspond · Post by **crayspond** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:31 am

Hi LesleyB,

Thanks for the reply - you are right it is harder to sift through especially when they use the same names. On the one hand it is good but then when the members of the family get married and start their own naming pattern it gets more complicated.

For example i printed out the birth cert of John Beveridge 04/01/1726 and all it says is John Beveridge and Janet Bell....... had a son called John..... before the congregation on the 4th Jan 1726.

I have to confess i missed out the words (see above gaps) as i cannot make them out ! it may well say 'baptised before the congregation' - There is a few on the page but i am still none the wiser!

I am amazed that they did not start recording births in Easter Ross until 1794 - what did they do? word of mouth maybe. Good if you wanted to make yourself 10 years younger!!!

Afraid to say i have a big bunch of Irish family lying in wait

Regards
Ailsa

crayspond · Post by **crayspond** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:51 am

Hi Chris,

Thanks for that load of information - I will print it out and study it in more detail.

I think Flesher was like a olden day butcher. My Beveridges' tended to be in the weaving industry. Funnily everyone used to think the name meant something to do with alcohol brewing - but not one Beveridge i have researched has ever had such an occupation. Shows how myths are started.

You also picked up on another variation on it - Belverage.
Again many thanks.

Ailsa

crayspond · Post by **crayspond** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:02 am

Hi Lesley B,

I had a look back at your advice to do a SP search on Belfrage/Bell - result! I typed Belfrage and Bell and came up with 1 name. Then i typed Be***ge and typed the place - Inverkeithing and bingo it came up with 6 children (12 entries but only 6 children - i assume christenings maybe) all children of John Beveridge and Janet Bell.

It obviously pays to reread posts.
Now what to do next ............? cup of coffee i think first

Ailsa