I know many of you like a challenge so I thought I’d post details of one of my intractable family history problems to see if any of you can lend assistance or spot a link with any of the individuals involved.
The couple are John Cummings and Maitland Brown of the East Neuk of Fife. I have a note of four possible children for this couple:-
Anne Cummings - born abt 1800, married George Balfour 26 April 1828, Largo, died 12 Dec 1873 (73 years), Lower Largo, Largo.
Helen Cuming - born 4 March 1803, Ceres (parents are recorded as John Cuming and Magdalene Brown), I think she married Robert Kidd, 4 July 1826, Largo.
William Fortune Cumming - born 5 March 1810, Kilconquhar, I think he married Alison Kidd, 23 Dec 1836, Largo.
Magdalene Cummin - christened 15 March 1812, Kemback (parents recorded as John Cummin and Magdalene Brown).
The children Helen and Magdalene are as yet unconfirmed children of John Cummings and Maitland Brown.
That’s about it I’m afraid, I have no date of birth for either John or Maitland, no likely parents for either of them and no record of a marriage for them! John possibly died 1848, Largo. Maitland may be elusive but she certainly made her mark as the forename was used in several subsequent generations.
There's no doubt something glaringly obvious I'm missing!
Any assistance at all in solving this problem would be greatly appreciated!
Regards,
George
John Cummings and Maitland Brown, East Neuk of Fife
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Langtonian
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LesleyB
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Hi George
I'd be interested in what John Cummings did for a living. Seems an unusual movement based on the places of birth of the children, but I know you are not certain that all the children belong.
As you probably know, William Fortune Cumming is turning up on the IGI as an extract, born 5th, christened 15th March 1810 at Kilconquhar. I'm just wondering if the OPR gives any further info?
The submission on IGI for Magdalene in Kemback gives the mother as Magdalene too as you have noted - but this may be a mistranscription or it may have been written down wrongly, Maitland being an unusual name. Again I'm just wondering if you seen the original?
You may already have seen the OPR entries, and maybe there is nothing further to be gleaned, but any little clue is worth following!
Best wishes
Lesley
I'd be interested in what John Cummings did for a living. Seems an unusual movement based on the places of birth of the children, but I know you are not certain that all the children belong.
As you probably know, William Fortune Cumming is turning up on the IGI as an extract, born 5th, christened 15th March 1810 at Kilconquhar. I'm just wondering if the OPR gives any further info?
The submission on IGI for Magdalene in Kemback gives the mother as Magdalene too as you have noted - but this may be a mistranscription or it may have been written down wrongly, Maitland being an unusual name. Again I'm just wondering if you seen the original?
You may already have seen the OPR entries, and maybe there is nothing further to be gleaned, but any little clue is worth following!
Best wishes
Lesley
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Langtonian
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John Cummings and Maitland Brown, East Neuk of Fife
LesleyB makes a good point about viwing the original record whenever possible.
Both William and Magdalene are in the OPRs and recorded on SP and unusually in each case the handwriting in the original record is wonderfully clear with no room for misinterpretation.
The Kilconquhar entry for William is particularly illuminating, it states that he is the fourth son and sixth child of the couple, his father John is recorded as a Merchant in Kilconquhar. Interestingly the entry is made in 1811 and there is a note which states that it couldn't be inserted in 1810 as the father has taken so long in notifying the birth! Perhaps an indication that the couple took a relaxed attitude towards ensuring their children were baptised, or John's employment entailed them moving around a bit.
The Kemback entry for Magdalene provides no additional info and the mother is recorded as Magdalene and not Maitland but I'm inclined to think this may well be the same couple.
The entry for Helen in the IGI is supposed to be an extracted entry but I can't seem to find her.
Those eagle eyed among you will spot a few other people in the IGI with Fortune as a middle name and Cumming (or variation of this) as a surname. So far I've not had any success in establishing a possible link between these families.
There are several other female Maitlands in the IGI, including a few others from the East Neuk of Fife.
Both William and Magdalene are in the OPRs and recorded on SP and unusually in each case the handwriting in the original record is wonderfully clear with no room for misinterpretation.
The Kilconquhar entry for William is particularly illuminating, it states that he is the fourth son and sixth child of the couple, his father John is recorded as a Merchant in Kilconquhar. Interestingly the entry is made in 1811 and there is a note which states that it couldn't be inserted in 1810 as the father has taken so long in notifying the birth! Perhaps an indication that the couple took a relaxed attitude towards ensuring their children were baptised, or John's employment entailed them moving around a bit.
The Kemback entry for Magdalene provides no additional info and the mother is recorded as Magdalene and not Maitland but I'm inclined to think this may well be the same couple.
The entry for Helen in the IGI is supposed to be an extracted entry but I can't seem to find her.
Those eagle eyed among you will spot a few other people in the IGI with Fortune as a middle name and Cumming (or variation of this) as a surname. So far I've not had any success in establishing a possible link between these families.
There are several other female Maitlands in the IGI, including a few others from the East Neuk of Fife.
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SarahND
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Re: John Cummings and Maitland Brown, East Neuk of Fife
Hi George,
12 MAR 1803 Associate Session Congregation, Ceres, Fife, Scotland
You should be able to get the film at a local LDS Family History Centre or, if she lived past 1855, look at her death certificate to confirm her parents.
That's a wonderful entry for William
What luck!
All the best,
Sarah
The christening was not Church of Scotland, so it won't be on SP:Langtonian wrote: The entry for Helen in the IGI is supposed to be an extracted entry but I can't seem to find her.
12 MAR 1803 Associate Session Congregation, Ceres, Fife, Scotland
You should be able to get the film at a local LDS Family History Centre or, if she lived past 1855, look at her death certificate to confirm her parents.
That's a wonderful entry for William
What luck!All the best,
Sarah
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LesleyB
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Hi Sarah & George
William's entry sounds wonderful - at least you have a bit of background info there. I'm now wondering what sort of merchant John was.... wonder if it might have had anything to do with the weaving trade? Merchant suggests he was not poor - I wonder if there might be anything to follow up with a will and/or sasines for land or property he might have owned?
Where did you find the date that you think might be his death?
Best wishes
Lesley
Well, that is interesting - I wonder if it goes some way to explain the other "missing" births. And why would William appear to be a CoS christening, if Helen is not?12 MAR 1803 Associate Session Congregation, Ceres, Fife, Scotland
William's entry sounds wonderful - at least you have a bit of background info there. I'm now wondering what sort of merchant John was.... wonder if it might have had anything to do with the weaving trade? Merchant suggests he was not poor - I wonder if there might be anything to follow up with a will and/or sasines for land or property he might have owned?
Where did you find the date that you think might be his death?
Best wishes
Lesley
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AndrewP
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Re: John Cummings and Maitland Brown, East Neuk of Fife
If you are within reach of Edinburgh, the Associate Session Congregation records will be in NAS.SarahND wrote:Hi George,The christening was not Church of Scotland, so it won't be on SP:Langtonian wrote: The entry for Helen in the IGI is supposed to be an extracted entry but I can't seem to find her.
12 MAR 1803 Associate Session Congregation, Ceres, Fife, Scotland
You should be able to get the film at a local LDS Family History Centre or, if she lived past 1855, look at her death certificate to confirm her parents.
All the best,
AndrewP
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Langtonian
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John Cummings and Maitland Brown, East Neuk of Fife
Sarah, Lesley and Andrew,
Many thanks for the comments.
The possible date of death I have for John is an OPR death of a John Cumming in Largo, 1848, from the Fife Family History Society Deaths Index CD, it may or may not be him, I haven't been able to track down a will at all.
Looks like the Ceres Associate Session Congregation birth is worth taking a look at, I wasn't aware this was a non CoS church. I wonder if the couple had a non CoS allegiance this might explain the patchy recording of their children’s births.
Funnily enough I was taking a look at Ancestry's Worldconnect database this afternoon and may have stumbled across one of the missing children.
There is a submission for a John Cumming, married parish of Largo in 1828, died 1876, parish of Markinch, the submitter has listed the mothers name as Metalton? Brown!
Now that looks rather like Maitland to me. There is a suggestion that this John married twice and the first child of his second marriage was James Maitland Cumming, definitely one to check out I think!
Many thanks for the comments.
The possible date of death I have for John is an OPR death of a John Cumming in Largo, 1848, from the Fife Family History Society Deaths Index CD, it may or may not be him, I haven't been able to track down a will at all.
Looks like the Ceres Associate Session Congregation birth is worth taking a look at, I wasn't aware this was a non CoS church. I wonder if the couple had a non CoS allegiance this might explain the patchy recording of their children’s births.
Funnily enough I was taking a look at Ancestry's Worldconnect database this afternoon and may have stumbled across one of the missing children.
There is a submission for a John Cumming, married parish of Largo in 1828, died 1876, parish of Markinch, the submitter has listed the mothers name as Metalton? Brown!
Now that looks rather like Maitland to me. There is a suggestion that this John married twice and the first child of his second marriage was James Maitland Cumming, definitely one to check out I think!
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AndrewP
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The Ceres Associate Session records listed on the NAS site are as follows.
CH3/54 Ceres Associate Session
RefNo . . . Title . . . . . . . Date
CH3/54/1 Session Minutes 1738-1748
CH3/54/2 Session Minutes 1781-1863
CH3/54/3 Session Minutes 1863-1885
CH3/54/4 Managers' Minutes 1885-1904
CH3/54/5 Managers' Minutes 1904-1913
CH3/54/6 Account Book 1771-1798
CH3/54/7 Account Book 1783-1818
CH3/54/8 Account Book 1818-1833
CH3/54/9 Account Book 1899-1913
CH3/54/10 Baptismal Register 1738-1763
CH3/54/11 Baptismal Register 1764-1837
CH3/54/12 Baptismal Register 1858-1891
CH3/54/13 Communion Roll 1858-1892
CH3/54/14 Communion Roll 1885-1913
The NAS online catalog is not working well just now. As far as I can make out the originals of these records are held in St Andrews University Library, with copies (digitised onscreen / microfilm?) in NAS.
All the best,
AndrewP
CH3/54 Ceres Associate Session
RefNo . . . Title . . . . . . . Date
CH3/54/1 Session Minutes 1738-1748
CH3/54/2 Session Minutes 1781-1863
CH3/54/3 Session Minutes 1863-1885
CH3/54/4 Managers' Minutes 1885-1904
CH3/54/5 Managers' Minutes 1904-1913
CH3/54/6 Account Book 1771-1798
CH3/54/7 Account Book 1783-1818
CH3/54/8 Account Book 1818-1833
CH3/54/9 Account Book 1899-1913
CH3/54/10 Baptismal Register 1738-1763
CH3/54/11 Baptismal Register 1764-1837
CH3/54/12 Baptismal Register 1858-1891
CH3/54/13 Communion Roll 1858-1892
CH3/54/14 Communion Roll 1885-1913
The NAS online catalog is not working well just now. As far as I can make out the originals of these records are held in St Andrews University Library, with copies (digitised onscreen / microfilm?) in NAS.
All the best,
AndrewP
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SarahND
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LesleyB
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Hi George
I've sometimes found with older folk, that sometimes just because they have lived so long, the names of their parents are not known to the informant, so you use your credits and end up none the wiser....
But you might be lucky - here's hoping!
Best wishes
Lesley
Using the free search on SP there does seem to be a John Cumming who died in Markinch in 1876, and was aged 79, but the only way to see if he is relevant would be if the informant knew his parent's names.There is a submission for a John Cumming, married parish of Largo in 1828, died 1876, parish of Markinch
I've sometimes found with older folk, that sometimes just because they have lived so long, the names of their parents are not known to the informant, so you use your credits and end up none the wiser....
But you might be lucky - here's hoping! Best wishes
Lesley