Help deciphering a marriage document

Linfleks · Post by **Linfleks** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:40 am

Hi, I just posted an image in the gallery (Isobel Kea and Thomas Whyte Marriage Document):

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1571

I would appreciate ANY help in reading the entry for Isobel and Andrew Whyte. The writing is legible, but the format is Greek to me.

Thanks to all ~
Linda

Gallery url added by Marilyn
Thank you, Marilyn!! Hopefully, I'll learn the ropes soon.

Post by **marilyn morning** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:52 am

Hi Linda,

Welcome to TalkingScot! When you upload an image to the gallery, it will need to be approved by an Administrator of TalkingScot and then we'll add the link to your post.

Regards
Marilyn

Post by **paddyscar** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:27 am

Hi Linfleks:

Going back to 1712, it's likely a combination of many things, but not likely Greek

There will be many who will be able to decipher this but it does seem to be a combination of the English language and bits of Church Latin, further confused by old Scots handwriting. http://www.scottishhandwriting.com/

It is a ledger of amounts received for a variety of Church services.

What I can make out is that 'Whyte and Isobel Kea were married 20th Nobr (November), but you've probably got that as well. Someone will definitely be able to help you soon.

All the best,
Frances

Post by **Anne H** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:22 am

Hi Linda,

A warm welcome from me too.

These early documents beat me, but here’s my try anyway!

And. Whyte and Isobel Kea were married 26th Nobr (November)
30th? Catt (Cott)? By Alexr. Thomsone …………………00: 12: 00 (12shillings?)
by him to the pens…? ……………………………00: 6: 00 (6 shillings?)
(even though it say married 26th Nov, I wonder if that was calling of banns and marriage on the 30th). Could Alexr. Thomsone have been a cautioner?

Sorry...not much help but as Frances said…I’m sure someone will come along who can help out.

Regards,
Anne H

momat · Post by **momat** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:59 am

Hi linda,

IGI site has Andrew Whyte and Isabel KAE Married on 26th November 1712 in CAMBEE FIFE.
There are Births in same place for both of them.

Cheers.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:00 am

Hi all
I reckon the next line is :
both colt (col[lec]t[ed] ) by Alex. Thomson 00-12-00
That is, the fees for the marraige were collected by Andrew Thomson from both Andrew & Isobel. Total cost 12/- (crikes that seems steep in 1712!!)
Carnbee is in Fife - the IGI must have a mistranscription on the place name.

It looks like an account book, so I'm not convinced the "by him to the pens" has to do with the marriage, it may be a separate item to do with pens for session clerk use, perhaps, which Andrew Thomson also dealt with. But...the pens appear several times on the page, so either the session clerk or the school maybe(?) got through a lot of pens or it is an abbreviation for something else. Coudl it be a spelling variiaton on pends? (as in close) Though I don't think Carnbee is big enough to have wee closies...
It may be explained in the Kirk Session records.

Best wishes
Lesley

Linfleks · Post by **Linfleks** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:26 pm

[quote="LesleyB"]
I reckon the next line is :
both colt (col[lec]t[ed] ) by Alex. Thomson 00-12-00
That is, the fees for the marraige were collected by Andrew Thomson from both Andrew & Isobel. Total cost 12/- (crikes that seems steep in 1712!!)

Does that mean the third entry would be for 1£ 4 Pence?
Carnbee is in Fife - the IGI must have a mistranscription on the place name.
I think it does say "Carnbee", but viewing type online sometimes makes a "r+n" look like an "m"?

Coudl it be a spelling variiaton on pends? (as in close)
I'm wondering if it's an abbreviation of some sort? I notice there is a colon following it; as there is for other abbreviations. I have no idea what it would stand for, though.

Though I don't think Carnbee is big enough to have wee closies...
It may be explained in the Kirk Session records.
Two questions here: what are 'wee closies", and how does one go about finding this information in the Kirk Session records?
Thank you for the input, Lesley! You've given me some ideas to try!
Regards,
Linda

Linfleks · Post by **Linfleks** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:33 pm

>>IGI site has Andrew Whyte and Isabel KAE Married on 26th November 1712 in CAMBEE FIFE.
There are Births in same place for both of them.<<

Thanks, Maureen! I've seen the IGI list her as both Isabel Kae (married to Andrew Whyte) and Isobel Kea (also married to Andrew Whyte). I wonder if it was a misspelling on the marriage document, as for the birth of their five children in the Old Parish Records it shows her last name as "Kae"?

Regards,
Linda

Linfleks · Post by **Linfleks** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:41 pm

[quote="Anne H"]Hi Linda,

>>A warm welcome from me too.

Thank you for the welcome, Anne!

I love the Scottish flag-bearing emoticon you have!
>>even though it say married 26th Nov, I wonder if that was calling of banns and marriage on the 30th
It almost appeared as if the marriage was on the 26th, and the fees collected on the 30th? Although, I don't suppose that would have been a likely event...
>>Could Alexr. Thomsone have been a cautioner?
I wondered about that. I've seen the bride's father listed before as a cautioner, but I suppose they could have a friend or relative, as well. I like it better when they list the bride's father--it gives you a 'leg up' on the previous generation!!

>>Sorry...not much help but as Frances said…I’m sure someone will come along who can help out.

I appreciate ALL the help I get!! It helps me to check out new ideas. Thanks!

Regards,
Linda

Linfleks · Post by **Linfleks** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:50 pm

>>Going back to 1712, it's likely a combination of many things, but not likely Greek

I love your sense of humor, Frances! Ευχαριστώ πολύ!

>>Scots handwriting. http://www.scottishhandwriting.com/
Thank you for the link! I've been perusing it all morning now... it's now bookmarked.

Regards,
Linda