Kirk Session Minutes Help

Moray_Lass · Post by **Moray_Lass** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:05 pm

Hi I managed my first trip to New Registry House a couple of weeks ago and spent the day deep in the Kirk Session Minutes - found four father's for children

, including one I didn't even know about!

I come on bended knees needing a little help deciphering what I have found.

I have uploaded two scans to the gallery

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1676

1. Margaret Symon & ? entry 21st October 1883
I can't decided what the father's name is on this entry - I think it might be 'Wm (William) McKenzie' but I am not sure. When it first appeared I read it as McKimmie, which would explain the child being Margaret Ann McKimmie Symon. Margaret Symon (snr) was brought up along with her first cousin George McKimmie (parents Ann Thomson & John McKimmie) by their Grandmother, so the 'McKimmie' could go either way.

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1677

2. Margaret Symon & ? entry 17th July 1887
Same again, I am not sure about the father's name, I think it might be 'Alistair Ogg (of) Aberlour' but I can't find an entry in the 1881 or 1891 census for an Alistair Ogg. Child's name was Mary Symon - no middle name.

Any tips on tracing these father's on just what the Kirk Session Minute gives, gratefully received.

Gallery URLs added - AndrewP

Rockford · Post by **Rockford** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:22 pm

Hi Maggie,

I've had a look at your images and I think that the first one is William McKenzie and the second one might be Alexr (Alexander) Ogg.

Not sure if this helps you!

Best wishes

Brian

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:55 pm

Hi Maggie
At first glance the writing looks nice and clear but oh boy they abbrevaited the oddest choice of words.

Like Brian I think that the first entry is McKensie
and the second one Alsnr (Alexander) Ogg.
I've seen that recorded as Oag sometimes.
Since they were recording these Kirk Session minutes for posterity did they never consider the problems they created for us

Russell

Post by **paddyscar** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:56 pm

Hi Maggie:

I read it as Alex'r Ogg of Aberlour and the other appears to be McKenzie, with the first 'e' being formed the same as the first 'e' in session and in being.

Also if you look at the October date, you can see the same form used in the surname Ogg.

Frances

Post by **SarahND** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:13 pm

Hi Maggie,
I agree with Alex'r and think he may possibly be the one transcribed as Abia Ogg (Ancestry's transcription), living in Bellie (Cottage on Auchenhabrig) in 1871. He was born in Glastonbury, Banffshire (according to this census) and is the son of William and Ellen. Alex and Margaret could have known each other from an early age. This may be his birth:

Alexander Ogg
Birth: 11 Apr 1867 Enzie, Banff
Father: William Ogg
Mother: Helen Pearson

Alex is not with the family, and may be called Andrew in 1881... a servant in Forgue, Aberdeenshire, born in Rathven, Banff.

I think by 1891 he is back to Alexander and has married Elizabeth. They are living in Keith, Banffshire and have a daughter Helen, age 1 month. He says he was born in Enzie, Banff this time.

Well, he's my best guess for the moment, anyway

All the best,
Sarah

Moray_Lass · Post by **Moray_Lass** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:20 pm

Thanks Brian, Russell, and Frances. I can see where you are all getting Alexander from now

I agree that they were storing up headaches for us with their abreviations. [-X I kind of hoped it was McKimmie and not McKenzie/McKensie, to solve that mystery, but these things aren't sent to be easy.

k

Thanks Sarah for that suggestion on finding Alexander Ogg. You are right if that is the man they would have gone to school together in Bogmoor. I will certainly look into him when I get home from work. The Bellie/Enzie/Rathven move doesn't bother me too much, they are minutes apart and moved a bit. But if he was a Bellie man, wouldn't he be called before the Session as well, or would admitting it be enough to get him off the hook? Margaret was called back on the 14th August about this one.

My next Kirk Session questions...

Would you agree that 'Bi-laspse in fornication' mean this is a second child? That is mentioned on Mary Thomson & Alexander Symon's entry for Margaret Symon. In which case Mary had another child that I have still to find!

Surprise find was John Young Symon (father John Young), which ties into something I was told by an old neighbour back in the 70's. 'My Granda had a brother, John, that emigrated.' Can someone with Ancestry do a quick look to see if they can see a John Young Symon emigrating anywhere before I pursue that 'story'? He was born 17 May 1891 in Bellie, I think I have spotted him in the 1901 census in Enzie (need more credits), and he wasn't around for my Grandparents wedding in 1939. This is the first person I have that left Scotland.

And the only disappointment of my NRH visit was there is not an entry for my grandfather's birth in 1903 (or several years either side).

There are no RCE for any of these births on SP. Can anyone think of anywhere else a father might be officially recorded (not on birth, navy records, marriage(x2) or death)? Following his brother's naming pattern, his father is probably a James Geddes.

Post by **SarahND** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:43 pm

Hi Maggie,
A quick look doesn't find John Symon going to either U.S. or Canada. Might he have switched his name to Young at that point?

Regards,
Sarah

Moray_Lass · Post by **Moray_Lass** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:53 pm

It is possible Sarah - until a fortnight ago he didn't exist as far as we knew, except that comment back in the 70's

I have found an entry in Moray LibIndx

Reference No.: NM003327
Surname: SYMON
Forename(s): JOHN
Occupation: RUBBER PLANTATION MANAGER & FARMER
Biography: MANAGED NAKIADENIYA GROUP OF RUBBER ESTATES IN CEYLON & FARMED AT MUIRYFOLD KEITH

But no idea if that is my missing John Symon or not, but I might try exploring this to rule it out.

Post by **SarahND** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:30 pm

Ah, in that case, here he is on the incoming passenger lists:

Ship "Carnarvon Castle" arrived Southampton from Capetown, South Africa in May 1947
John Symon, age 56
Proposed address in the U.K.: Torwood, Forres, Morayshire
Occupation: Planter
Country of last permanent residence: Ceylon

So looks like the story was true! Of course, that doesn't tell you whether or not he is yours, but the birth year is correct.

Regards,
Sarah

Post by **SarahND** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:52 pm

There are two more earlier arrivals, the second one with a family!

Ship: S S City of York
Port of arrival: Liverpool
Date of arrival: 17 Aug 1918
Whence arrived: Calcutta

Name: Mr. John Symon
Occupation: Planter
Age: 29
Country of last permanent residence: Ceylon
Country of intended future permanent residence: Scotland (with India written in)

Ship: Moreton Bay
Port of arrival: Southampton
Date of arrival: 3 June 1927
Whence arrived: Australia via Suez

Colombo (assume this is where embarked, but the page is folded back)
Name: Mr. John Symon
Proposed address in the United Kingdom: Findhorn, Morayshire, Scotland
Occupation: Rubber Planter
Age: 38
Country of last permanent residence: Ceylon
Country of intended future permanent residence: Other parts of the British Empire

With him are:
Georgina, occupation: Home Duties, age 30
Isabel, child, age 2
Alexander, child, age 2

Not sure what happened to Alexander, but it looks like Isobel now age 13 and a younger brother John, age 12, came back to Scotland to go to school in 1938. Their address was to be: c/o Dollar Academy, Clackmanshire