Poor Law Application Barony/Glasgow

[Bartmac]

After information on the possible Poor Law application/statement for Margaret McIntosh widow of George McLelland, this is a follow-up to my previous forum question in October regarding her Death Certificate. I've been in touch with Paisley Library, who have been most helpful, and they came up with the statements for her children William and Margaret and it said that Margaret jnr was 15 and a half and was residing at 1 Springburn Glasgow. Any help appreciated. John

Note from Admin: This is the previous post on this topic: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15531

[SarahND]

Hello John,
What information are you looking for? Are you still looking for the birth date of Margaret McIntosh (I assume she was the one who died in the poorhouse), or have you moved on and are tracking her children? It would help if you could give us some dates and clarify what you are looking for that you are unable to find.

All the best,
Sarah

[Bartmac]

Hello Sarah, I'm mostly interested in Margaret McIntosh and George McLelland, I know that Margaret died in Abbey Poorhouse, Paisley 10/8/1889, that she and George married in Barony 20 Dec 1849. On Scotlands People site, in the 1889 Statutory Deaths she is shown as "widow of George McLelland", but, try as I might I can't find George's death, it must be recorded somewhere in the 40 yrs between their marriage and her death. John

[SarahND]

Hello John,
What year was the application? If she was married in 1849, then 1889 seems very late to still have a 15 year old child, although possible. Have you been able to trace them through the censuses? What was George's occupation?

Sorry for all the questions, but every bit of information helps to narrow down the search. From what you already know, could this be Margaret and her two children in 1881? From the children's birthplaces, it would seem that the family was going back and forth from Scotland to Ireland. It is possible that George died there, so his death would not be found on Scotlands People.

1881
Paisley Abbey, Johnstone, Renfrewshire
Margaret McLelland, 47, Head, born Ireland, Flax Millworker
Margaret McLelland 19, Daughter, born Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Flax Millworker
William McLelland, 15, Son, born Ireland, Carter

Regards,
Sarah

[Bartmac]

Hi Sarah, that is the family, I didn't get the year of the statement from Paisley Library, but they did state that statement showed Margaret jnr as being 15 yrs of age, so I would assume that it must have been 1877 if she was 19 in 1881, and as for travelling back and forth to Ireland I'm finding this as I go along, not only that, it seemed as though my Grandfather didn't stay too long in any place, married in Govan, my father born in Beith and joined the Army in 1915 from Saltcoats, where I think they settled down atlast - except for my father who married my mum in Boston, Lincolnshire.

[SarahND]

Hello again,
Do you have them in any other censuses, just to save me time trying to track down information you already have.

What occupation did it give for George on Margaret's death certificate and his children's marriage and death certificates?
Going through your old posts, it seems that he may have been a coal miner, or at least his father was?

Were there other children born between the marriage in 1849 and the birth of Margaret?

Regards,
Sarah

[Bartmac]

Hi Sarah, answers to questions:

1) Not really, all my searches are still on Scotlands People and I haven't got around to downloading them yet!

2) On my Grandfathers Marriage to Catherine Hart on 16/3/1894 George is shown as a "jobbing gardener", I've come across the "coal miner" in my searches, but wonder if this is part of my family.

3) As for other children, the only one I am aware of is the William (my grandfather) shown on your 1881 Census, and he is still shown as a "carter" on his first marriage to Jane McIlvean 22/9/1890 when he lived at 16 McDowall St. Johnstone, and again when he married Catherine, when he they lived at 12 Reform st. Beith.

That's about as far has I have got to, except I have downloaded "Genealogy Death Records for Ireland 1871-1881" but there is only one George recorded and he was a Reverend! I think this smilie might just apply to my efforts.

John

[nelmit]

It may be a coincidence but I wonder if this birth entry is worth looking at.

It was bugging me that I couldn't find wee Margaret's birth entry so I searched for it with Margaret and mother's name Margaret McIntosh. This one came up -

MARGARET CLELLAND MCINTOSH

Event(s):
Birth:
12 SEP 1862 Govan, Lanark, Scotland

Parents:
Mother: MARGARET MCINTOSH

I know it doesnt make sense if George and Margaret married in 1849 but.....................

Regards,
Annette

[SarahND]

I saw that one too, Annette, and was wondering whether George had already died and wee Margaret was illegitimate.
It does seem odd that they were married in 1849, yet there appear to be no children until 1862 Is this the same couple?

Regards,
Sarah

[Bartmac]

Hi Sarah and Annette, the dates seem about right for young Margaret, although as you say the dates seem a little far apart, but not knowing if there were any other children older than her it remains a mystery - for now. Could not George have passed away whilst Margaret snr was pregnant hence the "Clelland" middle name? It's just a thought!!.

Here is a brief resume of the information received from Paisley Library:

The details from the statement for Margaret jnr was 15 and a half years of age, a millworker and residing at 1 Springburn, Glasgow.

Margaret snr was refused relief, this was because the family were outside the settlement of Paisley.

As the family were originally from the parish of Barony in Glasgow it is highly likely they would have applied to Glasgow for relief.

John