Help finding G G G G Grandparents.....

scotslink · Post by **scotslink** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:18 pm

Good morning,

I am hoping that someone can help me find a birth for my G G G G Grandmother, She was born 1825 Lochgelly, and named Vere Oswald, her parents were Alexander Oswald and Mary Black (according to her marriage and death cert), her marriage cert say's Alexander was a farmer, she married in 1851 Andrew Turnbull,(son of Andrew Turnbull Engineer and Mary Paterson) but on the 1851 census a James Oswald has been put down as Father in Law. Andrew and Vere had the following children, Jane Oswald Turnbull, Andrew Turnbull, John Turnbull, Catherine Turnbull, Ann Oswald Turnbull and Alexander Oswald Turnbull. When the children married any daughters they had were all given the name Vere Oswald as middle names. I have tried Scotlands People but to no avail.

And the second set are John Lindsay and Elisabeth Barrie, John and Elisabeth were married in Glencorse, Midlothian in 1849, I sent off for the marriage cert hoping to get the parents names but only received the Banns. By 1855 John and Elisabeth had moved down to England and on the 1881 census for England Elisabeth is down as Widowed aged 61, they had a son James born in Scotland c1850/51.

Many Thanks

Post by **emanday** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:02 pm

Had a quick look on Hugh Wallis site and found a few birth and marriage names in Midlothian with Vere as a middle name.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com ... .htm#Title

Unfortunately you can't go to the LDS entry for them now, but it might give you a few hints.

scotslink · Post by **scotslink** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:14 pm

Thankyou for the link Mary, the only one related is Jane Vere Oswald Proudfoot (nee Turnbull), daughter of Andrew and Vere.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:05 am

Hi Scotslink
Welcome to Talking Scot.

In order to help me help you (I hope) I have a couple of questions;

She was born 1825 Lochgelly, and named Vere Oswald, her parents were Alexander Oswald and Mary Black (according to her marriage and death cert), her marriage cert say's Alexander was a farmer, she married in 1851 Andrew Turnbull

How do you know she was born 1825 Lochgelly - is this information worked out from a census return?

You say you have a marriage certificate... yet she was married 1851, before statutory registration in Scotland. Do you have the original certificate, have you seen the OPR, or where else did this info come from?

Can you tell us when she died, please?
Have you seen her in any other census?

Lots of questions....!!

But the answers may help narrow this down a bit!
Best wishes
Lesley

scotslink · Post by **scotslink** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:31 am

Hello Lesley,

Thankyou for helping, I sent of for a copy from Scotlands People and received the 1851 Marriages of Kirkclady Old Parochial Regsiter, where twice Andrew Turnbull and Vere Oswald have been mentioned.

1851 census list her from Auchterderran, (cannot read address) Kirkcaldy
1861 census - Lochgelly (27 Cables Wynd?) St Thomas', Leith
1871 Census - Lochgelly ( Gordon Street)
1881 census - Lochgelly (11 Gordon Street) south Leith, Edinburgh

Death Cert:Vere Turnbull, (Oswald) Widow of Andrew Turnbull, Joiner, Died 1890, June 23, 10am, Gordon Street Leith, age 65, parents Alexander Oswald, farmer (deceased) and Mary Oswald, formerly Black (deceased), informant John Turnbull, Son

Many Thanks

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:54 am

Hi Scotslink

1861 census - Lochgelly (27 Cables Wynd?) St Thomas', Leith

Will mull over the rest of this.... but just to let you know meantime that there is a Cables Wynd in South Leith, so that looks likely. Some of my lot owned property there in the late 1700s .

Best wishes
Lesley

scotslink · Post by **scotslink** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:06 pm

Thankyou Lesley,

I thought with a name like Vere Oswald, she would be easy to find a birth for........!!!!!

Many Thanks for helping

Post by **emanday** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:16 pm

Do you know if their is any link with South Africa?

It is such an unusual name and this came up on a Google search...

http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/SO ... 1144871962

The name is about a third down the page. I don't understand the referencing, but someone here might be able to clarify that for you.

scotslink · Post by **scotslink** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:14 pm

Thankyou for that Mary,

Yes it is an unusual name, i thought it would be easy....

No connection to SA though, my nan always said that their was Scottish and Spanish in our family, although have found no reference to the Spanish side.

Regards and Thanks

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:44 am

Hi Scotslink
Not had any success with this, but a couple of things occurred to me..

OPR for Auchterderran (into which Lochgelly would fall) appear to cover the period you are interested in, but there may be gaps...this might explain the absense of your Vere.
405. AUCHTERDERRAN
405/1 B 1664-1819 M 1681-1819 D -
405/2 B 1820-54 M 1820-54 D -

It may be that she has been transcribed incorrectly - it is an unusual name, and they are often prone to misreprsentation. IGI has her as Vair at one point.

However, a search for a female Oswald in Fife from 1820-30, is not turning up anything that looks likely, nor is a seach for a V* Oswald birth anywhere in Scotland for the same period. And there seems to be no Oswald/Black female children listed on SP for the period 1800-1830.

It is odd that if her mother was Mary there is no daughter Mary in the children you have noted.

Hmm - 1841? Likley to be Fife, but no obvious sign of her....And when she married in Kirkcaldy in 1851 does the OPR give any clues at all?

Best wishes
Lesley