Linlithgow leatherworkers and difficult word!.....

jennyblain · Post by **jennyblain** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:55 pm

I've been pursuing the Linlithgow part of my family. Am back to the marriage of John Gilles and Agnes Thompson in 1707, and indeed have some things from before that. However I have a query about a word.

The 1707 OPR entry for their marriage reads:
October 19th
John Gilles Son to William Gilles Currier Burges in this Burgh and Agnes Thomson daughter to umqhl. William Thomson Indweller therein. Born in this parish. The said William Gilles Caur for both parties.

The word 'Caur' (I can't make anything else out of it) appears in the other entries on the page also. Is it an abbreviation for 'Cautioner' in the sense of verifying them, witnessing them? That's the sense of what it means, in all cases. ('Cautioner' I'd thought refers to standing bail for somebody - is it also simply acting as witness?) Or might the word be something else? It has a possible abbreviation mark above the 'u', on all occasions.

Anyway, both John Gilles and his father William were curriers, i.e. leatherworkers, that major Linlithgow trade. I still want to get hold of Burgess records, though! John and Agnes's daughter Eupham (a twin) married Robert McCulloch, and their son William (another twin) became a mason, later innkeeper. Lots of stories here!

Jenny

Post by **emanday** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:26 am

Didn't cautioners hold a sum of money for either or both parties as surety that the marriage would take place?

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:31 am

Hi Jenny & MAry

Didn't cautioners hold a sum of money for either or both parties as surety that the marriage would take place?

As Mary said above, that is pretty much my understanding of it. Cautioners being named for one or sometimes both parties I have certainly seen before in some of my lot.

Best wishes
Lesley

jennyblain · Post by **jennyblain** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:49 am

That will be it, then - confirms my thinking. Thanks, both.

Now to get to terms with the handwriting of the generation before - much more difficult!

Jenny

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:51 am

Hi Jenny

Don't say anything about handwriting to Mary.
She'll send you a copy of a 1666 Girtrig Will which is still causing me headaches but is improving my Secretary Hand reading skills.

Russell

Post by **emanday** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:11 pm

Russell wrote: Don't say anything about handwriting to Mary.
She'll send you a copy of a 1666 Girtrig Will which is still causing me headaches but is improving my Secretary Hand reading skills.

So you're still at it as well, Russell

I get what I think is the right word, then another one makes it totally unfeasable.

I'm getting there - (I keep saying that so I believe it!)

jennyblain · Post by **jennyblain** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:16 pm

Well, I'm quite pleased with myself just now because I managed to make out the standard (hah! common form) ending to all these Linlithgow marriages - 'in communi forma'.

Won't tell you how long it took though!

Jenny

PaulaD · Post by **PaulaD** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:27 pm

Hi Jenny,

Susanna (b 1708) daughter of John Gilles and Agnes Thomson married one of my Gibbs. Haven't found marriage yet but she and Walter (b 1702) had 9 children. I think

they are my 7 x great grandparents. Well according to FTM thats right

. This also means you should be related to Jean Jeanie! Maybe it is true that we're all Tam Whatsits bairns

Paula

jennyblain · Post by **jennyblain** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:29 pm

PaulaD wrote:Hi Jenny,

Susanna (b 1708) daughter of John Gilles and Agnes Thomson married one of my Gibbs.

Hey wow!

I've got some things further about the Gilles/Thomson people - been delving into that today and yesterday - including Susanna's birth record which I got yesterday from SP. She was twin to Alexander, and then Margaret and Eupham (my g-g-g-g-g-g-grandmother or thereabouts) were also twins, and there's twins in the next generation.

Where does Jean Jeanie fit into this?
Calling Jean Jeanie...

Trying to get further back now, but of course this is into the time of pretty sporadic records.

I'll post what I have on them, later. Have been trying to decipher the marriage record of Marion (or Margaret!) Lithgow and William Thomsone, the parents of Agnes, in 1678.

And you're in Sheffield! We have to meet...

Jenny

PaulaD · Post by **PaulaD** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:40 pm

Hi Jenny,

Right Jeanies rellie was married to Susanna and Walters gg grandson I think or it could be 3 x g. I get really confused

Interesting about the twins because as far as I know there were no more in the next half dozen generations.
I'd like to be able to link Walter back to Harie Gib (b 1628) and Ailisone Peebls (mainly cos I love the names) but it gets to difficult to prove.
Would love to get together - I'm in Manor Top

but there are lots of lovely coffee shops in town!

Paula