Parish Records Kirkalloway

Betty MacKenzie · Post by **Betty MacKenzie** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:34 am

On the IGI I have an Alexander Frater born Kirkalloway, Scotland 1828. He is also on IGI born 15th December 1828 Kirk Newton Northumberland, England.

On his death certificate it states he was born in Kirkalloway. He died in Australia.

His father was John Frater and his mother may have been Mary Glover.

He was married in Kirkcudbright to Penelope Hay in 1850.

Unfortunately I cannot find any record of birth or marriage.

I have access to Dumfries and Kirkcudbright parish records but not for Kirkalloway. Apart from Scotland's People where can I access Kirkalloway parish records for births.

Any help with this research would be great.

Thanks

Betty

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:57 am

Hi Betty
Looking at the entries for Alexander on the IGI, it seems they are all submissions - that means they have been submitted by members of the LDS Church or by others who may have been researching that family. As such, they are not to be trusted 100%!

If it is stated at the time of his death that he was born "Kirkalloway", then I'd tend to think that might be more accurate than the Northumberland version.

Do you know whan he left for Australia - Is there any chance he might show on a Scottish census before he left? We migth see him in the 1841 or 1851 with any luck - the submissions suggest he was having children in Australia in 1852, but married 1850 Kirkcudbright, allegedly...but note that none of the submissions state an actual day and month for the marriage, so this perhaps suggests an estimate or guess, and that no actual record of the marriage has been found by them.

I'm not sure where Kirkalloway is - is it maybe Kirk Alloway in Ayrshire?

Best wishes
Lesley

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:39 am

"kirkalloway" is generally taken to mean the Auld Kirk at Alloway, made famous by Burns' poem, - see http://www.robertburns.org.uk/News/kirkalloway.htm

I can't find an Alloway anywhere else in Scotland or the UK.

There is a "sound alike" in Scotland, - Alloa in the County of Clackmannan, - Alloway is often pronounced like that, but I can't see how Alloa would fit into this scenario.

The ancient parish of Alloway was united with Ayr parish in the late 1600s. The village is about 1 mile south of the town of Ayr.

David

Betty MacKenzie · Post by **Betty MacKenzie** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:16 am

LesleyB wrote:Hi Betty
Looking at the entries for Alexander on the IGI, it seems they are all submissions - that means they have been submitted by members of the LDS Church or by others who may have been researching that family. As such, they are not to be trusted 100%!

If it is stated at the time of his death that he was born "Kirkalloway", then I'd tend to think that might be more accurate than the Northumberland version.

Do you know whan he left for Australia - Is there any chance he might show on a Scottish census before he left? We migth see him in the 1841 or 1851 with any luck - the submissions suggest he was having children in Australia in 1852, but married 1850 Kirkcudbright, allegedly...but note that none of the submissions state an actual day and month for the marriage, so this perhaps suggests an estimate or guess, and that no actual record of the marriage has been found by them.

I'm not sure where Kirkalloway is - is it maybe Kirk Alloway in Ayrshire?

Best wishes
Lesley

Hi Lesley

Thanks for your reply.

I know what you mean about IGI. I have gone for the Kirkalloway because it was on his death certificate and the informant was his wife. They sailed for Australia in June 1851. The ships manifest has just been ordered so that may give whether he was Scottish or English.

This query has arisen from another thread on another site and I am trying to help someone in Australia so the Fraters are not my ancestors.

If you didn't mind could you try and find Alexander's parents in 1841. Assuming they were alive then. John, his father, was an Auctioneer. We have Penelope's family in 1841 in Kirkcudbright. Depending on when the census was in 1851 he should also be recorded somewhere for that year.

I was going with the idea that Kirkalloway was perhaps Kirk Alloway in Ayrshire but I don't think there is an actual Parish or place. It is just Alloway. I might be wrong.

Thanks for your time.

Betty

Betty MacKenzie · Post by **Betty MacKenzie** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:28 am

DavidWW wrote:"kirkalloway" is generally taken to mean the Auld Kirk at Alloway, made famous by Burns' poem, - see http://www.robertburns.org.uk/News/kirkalloway.htm

I can't find an Alloway anywhere else in Scotland or the UK.

There is a "sound alike" in Scotland, - Alloa in the County of Clackmannan, - Alloway is often pronounced like that, but I can't see how Alloa would fit into this scenario.

The ancient parish of Alloway was united with Ayr parish in the late 1600s. The village is about 1 mile south of the town of Ayr.

David

Hi David

You might get this message twice as I got cut off when I sent and the first one didn't show up at time of doing this one.

You will see on another reply my difficulty finding anything on Alexander Frater.

Perhaps I should start looking in Northumberland.

Thanks for your time.

Betty

Post by **emanday** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:28 am

I may be way off on the wrong track here, but this looks very much like your chap...

1841 Scotland Census (On Ancestry)
about Alexander Frater
Name: Alexander Frater
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Gender: Male
Where born: England

Civil parish: Yetholm
County: Roxburghshire
Address: Kirk Yetholm
Parish Number: 811
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Frater 10
Isabella Frater 50
John Frater 25

Betty MacKenzie · Post by **Betty MacKenzie** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:15 pm

I keep getting cut off so you may also get this twice.

Thanks for sending me the census for 1841. It could be the same person. Age would fit. I don't suppose there are any other details.

Alexander would have been married by 1851. Can you find the other people in the census in 1851.

I have found Penelope in 1841 living with Father Peter Hay and sisters. Can you find her in the 1851 either under Frater of Hay.

Thanks for your help.

Betty

Post by **emanday** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:42 pm

You might find this interesting

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/pt/pedigree ... 65985&pg=0
and this

http://awt.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/igm.c ... 20&ti=5538

Looks pretty much like the family

Betty MacKenzie · Post by **Betty MacKenzie** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:56 pm

Hi

Thanks for that two links. Unfortunately I had already come across them.

I gave them to the person I am trying to help as there seems to be a few people researching this family. Through that links she got in touch with someone she had not been in contact with and has now opened up another line in her family.

Apart from Alexander's death certificate she has no proof of marriage or where he was born.

Thanks again.

Betty