The Lost Clan....Scots guards in Italy!

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LesleyB
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

The Lost Clan....Scots guards in Italy!

Post by LesleyB » Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:26 pm

Hi all
Earlier this year, whilst in northern Italy, I heard about a small village called Gurro in the Province of Novara, which has an alleged Scottish connection. The village is known locally as "il paese scozzese".

A book was written about the area and its Scots connections by Lt Col Gayre of Gayre and Nigg, published in 1974, called "The Lost Clan Sant'Andrea degli Scozzesi of Gurro Novara" which looks at the possibility that following the Battle of Pavia in 1525, some Scots Guards settled in the little hamlet of Gurro near the Italo-Swiss frontier, settled down, married Italian women and he suggests that their descendants live in the area to this day.

...and the village has retained its Scots identity. There are apparently many words in the local dialect which are of Scots or celtic origin: e.g. buter for butter, and many of the surnames in the area are suggested to be of Scots origin: Steven, Lenat (suggested as Lamont) Tenent (suggested as Tennent) Also, a fabric which looks like tartan is traditional to the area.

Until recently the only way to reach Gurro was by mule track, but it is now possible to travel there by car and have a coffee in the small "Bar Scotch" before collecting the museum key from the bar owner and visiting the fascinating local museum which is on three floors. It was a large, well maintianed and well stocked museum for what is really just a small village. There is an annual Scots festival held in the village and the photos taken at some of these events were on display; although some of the locals did look Italian, many did not....they would have looked quite at home in Scotland.

Sounds like it has incredible potential for a DNA project! :lol:

Best wishes
Lesley

SarahND
Site Admin
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Post by SarahND » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:21 am

Fascinating! A great DNA study for sure! I wonder when we will get some TS members who trace their ancestry through that village? I look forward to it :D
Sarah

StewL
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Location: Perth Western Australia

Post by StewL » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:21 am

Hi Lesley

I recall hearing/reading about this village some time ago but cant recall where or when, I thought the sodjers were from a later campaign but then as I said I cant recall the details. From what I do recall, it is not some sort of local myth either, but has some basis in fact. Some grey cells that have just woken up tell me it was around Charlies time, or something about them not being paid and staying, but again that could be the memory playing tricks on me again :roll: But the northern Italy/Tyrol area does ring a bell in the dark recesses of the brain cells :lol:
Stewie

Searching for: Anderson, Balks, Barton, Courtney, Davidson, Downie, Dunlop, Edward, Flucker, Galloway, Graham, Guthrie, Higgins, Laurie, Mathieson, McLean, McLuckie, Miln, Nielson, Payne, Phillips, Porterfield, Stewart, Watson

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:36 am

Hi Stew
There is another famous Scots/Itialian town - Barga in the Garfagnana area of Tuscany. Many Italian families who settled in Scotland and started up fish & chip shops and cafés come from the Barga area. Many of those families move back and forwards between Scotland and Barga frequently, to the extent that they are truly bilingual - native speakers in both languages.
e.g: one balmy evening, whilst sitting outside the Bar Onesti in Barga, surrounded by Italian families enjoying chatting away, a young girl, about 15yrs old, was talking to a good looking youth who was on a moped. He must have invited her to go for a spin on his bike...and just as she swung her leg over the back of the moped I was amazed to hear, from the family beside me, a shout of "Maria! Get aff, yer no goan on that bike wi' that Luigi" :shock: Don't know if it was me or Maria who was more surprised! :lol:

Best wishes
Lesley

Best wishes
Lesley

Andrew C.
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 12:55 pm

Post by Andrew C. » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:09 pm

Aparently it was Scots mercenaries fighting for Charles I of France. Did a net search and there are planty of references.

Also according to 'Scots Italian', the Battle of Pavia in 1525 featured many Scots mercenaries in the service of Francis I of France who settled in the town of Gurro in Piemonte.

Until recently Gurro was only accessible by mule track and the villagers are very proud of their Scottish connections.

Indeed, a book called "The Lost Clan Sant'Andrea degli Scozzesi of Gurro Novara" explains how the Scots Guards settled in the little hamlet of Gurro near the Italo-Swiss frontier and their descendants live here to this day.

www.museogurro.it/clan
www.scotsitalian.com

Montrose Budie
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Post by Montrose Budie » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:34 pm

I've recently been invited to be one of the main presenters at the 2008 SAFHS Conference, to be organised jointly by G&WSFHS and Lanarkshire FHS, the theme being DNA in the widest sense.

My presentation will focus on the history of immigration to and emigration from Scotland; as far as the latter is concerned, prominence will be given to Scots in Europe, over and above N America and Australasia, in which this tale will be incorporated :!:

David

Andrew C.
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 12:55 pm

Post by Andrew C. » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:41 pm

When searching for the Italian connection I found this interesting article about the Scots in Poland.

http://www.scotland.org/about/history-t ... /1576.html

DavidWW
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:11 pm

Andrew C. wrote:When searching for the Italian connection I found this interesting article about the Scots in Poland.

http://www.scotland.org/about/history-t ... /1576.html
Now that's precisely the type of info that I'll be presenting.

Anyone care to venture an opinion on the origin of the Polish surnames MACHLEJD and MAKALINSKI?, without looking at the referenced site, :?: :!: , - no cheating now :wink: , - these and other Scots have been in Poland for over 400 years ....., never mind .................

Czamer, Czemar
Dasson
Lendze, Lenze
Czochran, Czochranek
Drews
Frybes
Gordonowicz
Loson
Ramze
Ridt, Rydt
Rossek
Szynkler
Tailorowicz
Tamson
Wajer


..... all of which are recognized as Polish surnames, having been there for several centuries :!: , but have Scottish origins :!:

No prizes, just the satisfaction of making the connection :wink:

David

Mo-anne
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Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:40 am
Location: Poland

Post by Mo-anne » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:38 pm

There ia a large family grave in an old cemetry in Warsaw where the Macdonalds have been buried for several hundred years - the surname unchanged but the first names becoming increasingly Polish along the generations.